UK :
Israel:
Home | Business | Mid East | IDF| Judaism | Readers Stories | Muslim Zionism | Anti-semitism alerts | Forum |Today’s Weblog



related articles

Liddy guest Walid Shoebat falsely claimed that Obama is `definitely a Muslim`
Video: Iran and the End Times at Pastor John Hagee`s 2008 Washington Summit
McCain gets religion
VIDEO – Pastor John Hagee: A Preoccupation with the Jews
CUFI Nights to Honor Israel May End Up Being Nightmares That Disgrace Israel
Criticism is Leading CUFI to Alienate Core Supporters
Hagee`s Media Suppression Scandal Threatens To Splash Embattled Lieberman
The Other Side of CUFI (Missionising In Israel & Villifying The Orthodox)
`The Great Derangement` :
Hagee`s `Christians United for Israel` Meet in DC, Seeking Conflict with Iran
Pastor Hagee`s Desperate News Suppression Campaign Backfires
YouTube Censors Videos Exposing Hagee`s Pro-War & anti-Jewish Sermons
Walid Shoebat: The Simon Altaf Connection
CUFI Speaker Walid Shoebat: `666` is `In the Name of Allah`
Obama announces trips to Middle East, Europe
U.S. Military`s Middle East Crusade for Christ
Messianic Oil Exploration Company, Zion Oil To Sponsor CUFI `Night To Honour Israel`
NY Congressman Eliot Engel Mulls Hagee Appearance At CUFI event
Christian Zionist Gathering Mired In Controversy
As Bush`s War Strategy Shifts to Iran, Christian Zionists Gear Up for the Apocalypse
The cult of `Christian` Zionism is what the concept of the Anti-Christ is all about.
Hasbara Speaker Brigitte Gabriel, Makes 2nd Appearance at Joint Staff College ?
Why I can`t support the Christian Zionists
Audio: Hagee`s `Jewish, gay` anti-Christ in his Sermon Series – `Iraq, the Final War`
Abe Foxman to become 1st centrist Jewish Leader to pull support from Hagee`s CUFI
We did it! John McCain renounced Hagee!
Does Lieberman Still See Hagee As Moses Incarnate?
Video: CUFI`s Expectations Of Armaggedon As Barrier To Peace In Israel/Palestine
Never Again: The Final Solution was a collaborative effort by the Christian world
Inside The Christian Zionist Death Cult
Undercover with the Christian Right: Hagee`s Church, Israel and the Armageddon
McCain-Backer Hagee lies, to Jewish Bloggers, On His Motives For Supporting Israel
Don`t just sit there and complain about American policy. Help J Street
New kid on the block – The American-Jewish lobbying group J Street
The other evangelicals
Are You Listening, Joe Lieberman?
Hagee: Lies and the Lying Liar Who Tells Them
The State of The New Left: An Interview With Bill Berkowitz
US Evangelist Gives $6 Million to Israel
Move over Moses, Pastor Hagee is here
USA Air Force Academy: Failure of Intelligence to Support the Troops
Jews should not engage in alliances with Hagee`s Christians United for Israel
McCain Was After Hagee Like a Dog In Heat
The Children of Palestine and Israel are Cannon Fodder for the Rapture
From Lebanon with Hate: Brigitte Gabriel, speaking at John Hagee`s CUFI Convention


Christian Zionist Leader Hagee in Unprecedented Appearance at Reform Temple
Filed under: Israeli politics, Anti-Semitism, Christian Zionism, Jewish diaspora, Jewish organisations worldwide, USA foreign policy, News, US elections, Christian Fundamentalism, Lobby Groups
On: Thursday, March 20, 2008 – By: Israel e News

By Robin Podolsky, March 17, 2008. Special to JewsOnFirst.org
 
On Tuesday, March 11, the Reverend John C. Hagee spoke as a guest at Stephen S. Wise, a Reform Temple in West Los Angeles—the first time, the Reverend said that he had spoken at a Reform Temple in more than 20 years. The event was billed as a ‘dialogue’ between Reverend Hagee and Rabbi David Woznica, and the format was that of a long interview in which Rabbi Woznica asked questions that Reverend Hagee answered. The audience had no opportunity to ask questions of its own.
 
When asked to identify himself theologically, Reverend Hagee said that he is Evangelical, which means that he “reads scripture” and then simply “does it.” He said that he is not fundamentalist, because he does not wish to be identified with the sort of people who handle snakes. (This was not the only time when Reverend Hagee appeared to cater to a prejudice that he expected his audience to share. At one point, he invited the mixed audience of Jews and evangelicals to commiserate with the difficulties of winning Texas “rednecks” to the task of combating anti-Semitism; he also described a rushed, hurried prayer as being like that of “a Presbyterian late for lunch.”) 
Reverend Hagee (at right) and Rabbi Woznica at Stephen S. Wise Temple, March 11th
 
When Rabbi Woznica asked the Reverend if he was a literalist, he said that he was and that he did believe that the world was really created in six days and that Noah’s ark was real. On the other hand, in response to a follow-up question from Rabbi Woznica, Reverend Hagee said that he does not believe a Sabbath-breaker ought to be stoned to death, referring to Biblical laws as ‘word pictures’ that indicate ‘principles.’ Pressed further, Hagee said that he takes stories of miracles literally and that his belief in God as all-powerful and all-knowing has ‘never’ been shaken.
 
Blessings and curses in Deuteronomy

Rabbi Woznica pressed the point in reference to Reverend Hagee’s famous remark that Hurricane Katrina can be best understood as God’s punishment for sin, homosexuality in particular. Hagee didn’t answer directly but responded with a précis of the blessings and curses described in Deuteronomy as the recompense for obedience or sin. He then went on to say that when a tragedy occurs, “you don’t know that day if it is a tragedy,” re-telling the story of Joseph who thought he was having a bad day when his brothers sold him into slavery and who later realized that the series of events leading to his position of leadership in Egypt represented the work of God on behalf of his entire people.
 
Rabbi Woznica asked if, on the day that a tsunami wiped out thousands of people, we might not be justified in assuming that we were all having a bad day. The Reverend acknowledged that it would certainly feel bad at the time.
 
Then the tone of the conversation changed abruptly. Rabbi Woznica asked the Revered if we are always obliged “to forgive.” Hagee said that we are only obliged to forgive in response to a promise of changed behavior, because to forgive without a promise of different conduct is to “make the grace of God an accomplice to evil.” The Reverend went on to remind us of the story of Jesus and the adulterous woman—Jesus, whom Hagee described as a “Reform Rabbi” (!) rescued from the crowd “of Pharisees” about to stone her and told her to “go and sin no more.” The point being that the woman was forgiven, but not without conditions.
 
The recitation of this story in service of the Reverend Hagee’s theology of forgiveness crystallized what was intriguing and exasperating about the whole evening. As Rabbi Woznica remarked, this may have been the first time that any of the Jews in the audience had heard a Christian suggest that gratuitous forgiveness is not the absolute obligation of every victim—and certainly the first time that we had heard a conservative Christian acknowledge Jesus as a rabbi, much less a Reform one. On the other hand, Jesus’ ‘legalistic’ and bloodthirsty opponents were still characterized as Pharisees—those forerunners of the Rabbinic movement. It was an odd juxtaposition—on one hand, a clear attempt to win over the audience while slipping in a reference to an old canard: forgiving Jesus versus hateful and unforgiving proto-rabbis.
This was even odder following Hagee’s refusal to categorically take back his on-record assertion that a hurricane that wiped out thousands of lives might best be understood as Divine punishment and, therefore, as just.
 
Support of Israel?

Reverend Hagee said that he wished the audience to understand that his work “in support of Israel” was not aimed at conversion of Jews to Christianity. He then expressed irritation at being asked if his work with Christians United For Israel (CUFI, which Hagee heads) had to do with the Apocalypse. He said, “Only a moron would ask a question like that.”
 
Rabbi Woznica smiled and said that the question had been “on his list.” However, perhaps because he was uncomfortable at the possibility of his guest calling him a moron or because he was distracted with other questions, he never returned to the issue again.
 
Therefore, the audience never got a chance to hear what the Reverend would have said if someone had asked him to explain his dismissal, in advance, of any discussion of the Apocalypse in the context of the discussion that followed.
 
At one point, Reverend Hagee said that, following the example of his father, also a minister, he regards the founding of the State of Israel to be the most important event of the 20th Century—because this ‘in-gathering’ is a necessary prelude to the rebuilding of the Temple, the battle of Armageddon and revelation of the Messiah, whom Hagee believes to be Jesus Christ. At the sight of the Messiah, the “remnant” of the Jews who would be left after the Armageddon struggle (Hagee coyly observed that while, remnant sounds bad, “we don’t actually know how big a remnant is”) would “weep at the sight of the one whose side they (!) had pierced.” This account is absolutely at odds with Hagee’s earlier statement that it is wrong to interpret the Christian Bible to suggest that the Jews killed Jesus, because that killing was actually a “Roman conspiracy.” Rabbi Woznica, doing his game best to follow the argument, did not interrupt to point out this inconsistency.
 
It is worth noting, in this context, that Hagee has made statements on the record claiming that a nuclear war between Israel and Iran would trigger the Armageddon war in which Russia will join with an Arab coalition against Israel. Surely this means that, like Hurricane Katrina or the perfidy of Joseph’s brothers, the coming of this terrible war in which many people, including Israelis would be killed would not actually be a bad day.
 
To this Reform audience, Hagee insisted that CUFI is a ‘one-issue’ organization that does nothing but “support Israel,” sending out lobbying brigades to Congress with focused talking points on that subject alone. But he was never asked how, in light of his belief that the War of Armageddon is necessary to the chain of events that will bring on the world to come, such a belief colors his notion of what “support” for Israel means. (The Rabbi admitted that he has not read Hagee’s book, Jerusalem Countdown, and asked Reverend Hagee to send him a copy.)
To heighten the contradiction even further, Hagee averred that, while he does not believe that Israel ought to give up any territory it now controls (because of the Biblical mandate that “excludes Ishmael”), he would not “tell them they could not do that.” However, his lobbying efforts have been documented elsewhere as ‘supportive’ of the most war-mongering right wing elements in Israeli society.
 
Christian right leaders on CUFI’s board

Hagee also has, on the Board of CUFI, assembled the most socially right wing Christian ministers, who are working, actively, to re-brand the United States as a Christian nation. Hagee was never asked how, if he believes that the removal of Jews from the United States to Israel is an eschatological necessity and, if he is working to turn our constitutional democracy into a Christian nation, what he thinks the role of Jews as US citizens ought to be.

Hagee was warmly received by this Reform Jewish audience and given several standing ovations. It may be that this audience had never heard a Christian preacher acknowledge the several truths that Hagee did address in his remarks.
 
He admitted that the Crusaders were “liars, murderers, rapists and thieves;” that Jews were tortured during the Inquisition; that the perpetrators of the Holocaust were, for the most part “baptized Christians in good standing within their congregations.” He admitted the anti-Jewish screed of Martin Luther. (And, no, he was never asked to explain his remark that the Catholic Church is a “whore.”) Hagee said it was time that Christians acknowledged the anti-Judaism that has run through Christian history and “asked forgiveness.”
 
All this, along with the Reverend’s warm, personable attitude, proved utterly seductive to this crowd, who seemed unfamiliar with Hagee’s other side: the side that has every reason to help provoke a state of constant war between Israel and her neighbors in order to bring about the Messianic scenario in which he believes; the side that attacks Catholicism in such terms as would draw blanket condemnation if they were ever used to describe Judaism; the side that flatly opposes separation of church and state; a woman’s right to choose and gay rights—all principles that the Reform movement has endorsed.
 
For more on Rev. Hagee and Christian Zionists, please click here.

del.icio.us | Digg | Newsvine | NowPublic | reddit | Tailrank | Technorati |

Email This Article ... Printer Friendly ... Export to plain text document ... Export to MS Word Document ...




Talkback comments can be read by clicking on the blue headline, and replied to if you are logged in. An icon shows beneath the headline, if the writer has opted to receive emails. Clicking on will enable you to send a private email to the writer.

Please log in to post comments. We encourage Talkback participants to avoid posting comments that violate our code of conduct. Thank you for your co-operation.

Username
Password
Remember Me


First time here? Click here to register  Password reminder

 

 

all channels

Israel e News RSS Israel e News feed

search

Search News For: Search In:               Search Help

newspoll

forum
..latest forum postings.. Shalom

Author: shalom1965
Subject: Shalom
Posted: 19 Dec 08 at 09:38

Hello. I am a new member looking to broaden my knowledge of Jews and Israel. I a

Israel Insider survives hacker attack
Author: Charming
Subject: Israel Insider survives hacker attack
Posted: 22 Sep 08 at 22:13

Israel Insider is now at
http://israelinsider.ning.com/

or r

Israel Insider survives hacker attack
Author: Zionist
Subject: Israel Insider survives hacker attack
Posted: 22 Sep 08 at 13:33

    Did the IP addresses get into hands of Islamofacists? <

Israel Insider survives hacker attack
Author: Zionist
Subject: Israel Insider survives hacker attack
Posted: 22 Sep 08 at 13:27

    Hey, hacks come and go, don’t worry about it,

Israel Insider survives hacker attack
Author: reiburg
Subject: Israel Insider survives hacker attack
Posted: 20 Sep 08 at 04:36


You people are wrong, Israel Insider is an American site, Christian Zion

Hi All
Author: reiburg
Subject: Hi All
Posted: 20 Sep 08 at 04:21

    Just joined, but there doesn’t seem to be much going on

About us | Features | Islamic fundamentalism |Xtian Zionism| USA | Entertainment| Erotica | Authors | Donors | Contact us
copyright ©2006 israelenews.com all rights reserved